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tate · Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2007 7:50 am Post subject:

Yeah we'll grab a tape measure.

I checked the tunnel last night. I stand corrected that only 1 suv would fit down the tunnel. The water was half way up my shin (aka, Der's ankle) and moving at a brisk but not entirely dangerous speed.

My buddy Joel will be coming too as he is a tunnel enthusiast. He asked me on the phone, "You're not going to try to get me to play one of those games, are you?" Ah, the unenlightened...

See you tonight!

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

I've got a Tape in my pile o' stuff to put in my pack, just in case, I did notice though that my first aid kit is low on Band-aids...

I'm assuming walking sticks might not be a bad idea then?

Chris · Posted: Wed Oct 24, 2007 9:08 am Post subject:

Quick update for those who are interested.

The tunnel was cold and wet. But not really bad. The noise of the river was just enough to mask conversation past a couple feet, so sound quality wasn't something we could test.

The variety of torches was fabulous. I'll let people talk about their own torches.

Torchlight lets you see people in bright clothing at about 25'. About 15 regaurdless.

Candles only serve to make you a target.

Torch duration was our biggest problem. I think mine could use a flue to limit the air. It burt to hot and fast, but the basic design was prety good.

So, we'll have to go back sometime and try and extend the duration. Hopefully we'll have some pics for everyone soon.

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

now that my feet are dry and warm...

Torches was indeed very fun and very illuminating... ooh, pun-tastic.

is anyone else getting a touch of a cold though? I've come to realize that stomping around in a dungeon is a miserable, cold, dark and lonely experience... I know a lot of times we spend days and weeks in dungeons in our games sometimes, and it would take a significant toll on races not suited to long periods underground. I know we've talked about coming back to test out new torch ideas, and I'm still down for that,

but now I'm even seriously toying with the idea of waiting for a dry day and camping out down there for a night... well, maybe not in the sewers, but it might be nice to try to find a local cave somewhere and actually spend a night... I imagine this will probably end up in the pipe dream file in my head... ooh, another pun... but it might be interesting.

anywho, the torches! I made my torch by shoving a sharp stick through the bottom of one of those tall energy drink cans, then I tried to seal it up with Duct tape... the handymans secret weapon... then I cut the top off of the can and filled in the space with a fancypants napkin I once borrowed from a local bar/restaurant, I poked a few holes in the side of the can to allow ventilation, then poured in some lamp oil...

the first problem was that no matter how much duct tape I used, I couldn't seal the hole in the bottom, and after a few minutes, (when I tested it with water) a very slow leak emerged. it wasn't as bad with the oil and napkin in place, I'm guessing the oil was more viscous and the napkin helped soak it up...

the next problem was merely that the cloth napkin must have had some synthetic material because it melted and filled the top of the can, choking off the fire from its fuel... once the torch cooled I was able to peel off the sides of the can and slowly expose the napkin open air and re ignite it...

anyways, it's a fun experiment and raises lots of questions..

tate · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:53 pm Post subject:

First about my torch: I went with what I assumed was the old fashioned way, some cloth wrapped around a stick. The t-shirt material didn't burn too well, but I made a few out of an old wool sweater. combined with a little bit of Der's lamp oil, they burned bright and safe, and last probably 10-15 minutes. I'll keep experimenting to try to bring that time up. Once the torches burned low, i dowsed them in the calf-deep water we were standing in, and I'm not sure, but the wool might still be usable as a wick. If not, it's off to Good Will to buy some ugly old wool stuff. I was most impressed with Jim's torches.

Illumination. One of our experiments was to have people hold some torches. A few of us walked of into the dark, and then approached back towards them, and they called out when they could see us. My wife spotted my legs at about 40-50 feet, and Chris could see us at about 25 or 30. That ... WHoa! No kidding, I just pulled out my PHB, and the part on torches says, "A torch burns 1 hour, clearly illuminating a 20-foot radius, and providing shadowy illumination out to a 40-foot radius." So to the good people at D&D; way to do your homework.

A word to the wise, and us next time, you might want to wear a little mask if you give this a try. When I got home I spit and there was a goodly amount of blackened soot. I don't smoke, and for me that seems a little deleterious to the health.

The torches did a great job though. 7 of us went on the little soiree, and after standing around and experimenting with the torches we just walked along for a while. We had 2-3 torches going during it, and I thought it would be fun to scout ahead. So I walked about 50 feet ahead of folks, and could still see probably 10-15 feet ahead of me once my eyes adjusted. Also, looking back at the group, I realized that spacing the group out with 2 torches actually gave us a large area of illumination. Were we in a situation like characters in-game often find themselves, this seems to be a good strategy. One person ahead to sound the alarm if there is trouble, and then everyone else further back would have time to react to any danger before it was upon them. However, without a scout, anyone out in the dark could see you coming from a long way off, and could easily surprise a group. Just a hint for PCs and DMs alike Twisted Evil

!

Chris, I'm having trouble emailing the video, but will try agian here later. Otherwise I could jsut put it on a jump drive and drop it by your house on Halloween.

Chris · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 1:33 pm Post subject:

The soot probably had the most to do with impurities in what we were burning. A died hankerchief for example, has a lot of impurity to kick up as soot. That's part of why I cut the elastic off my sock fuel.

But next time, I'm probably just going to head up to hancock fabrics, find the most natural cloth I can find.

The other thing we should consider, is that most torches used pitch, not just oil. It burns slower than what we've been working with. I may try this

keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

Try paraffin. Or smokeless lamp oil.
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Chris · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject:

I was using the smokeless lamp oil. I just had used machined cotton for the wrap.

Coupled with my torch allowing a lot of air at the fuel, it burned really, really fast.

I think if I can actually dampen the air intake a little, and pack a bigger wad in there, it should burn a lot longer.

keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

I can't remember, did you use the cloth as a wick, or just burn it? Maybe an Oil-lamp-on-a-stick is the best approach.

Or use tampons...

After all, the ancients didn't have duct tape, either.
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keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

By the way, what did you think of the quality of the light, irrespective of its brightness. I seem to remember preferring torchlight to flashlight... light.
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Chris · Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2007 7:55 pm Post subject:

Because it's a nice soft light, it is much easier on the eyes for seeing the big picture. It also did a great job of being 'every where' as opposed to the flashlights direct light.

That said, I'd hate to try and make out details with it. If I had to read some ancient inscription, I'd probably whip out a candle (or flashlight) for that.

Now, Tate's friend (who's name escapes me) had a nice little headlamp with a red gel. The dull red was about as nice, but I felt I couldn't see quite as much that way as I could with the torch.

EDIT:

Didn't see the first one.

I actually did both. Cotton socks (clean socks people) were in a bag with lamp oil, and another set just kept dry.

The dry did not burn as bright or last as long (expected).

1/2 a sock only lasted a few minutes. I'm going to try a similar material, just wrapped tighter and allowed to soak longer (hopefully will pull up more oil).

The tampons are definitely something worth a try. As are kerosene soaked toilet paper rolls. (a guy at work said that's what he used in the youth camp he taught).

tate · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:13 pm Post subject:

How do you make pitch, anyways? It might be way beyond me, but as I understand it comes from pine trees. Northern Minnesota has a few of those, so maybe that would be something to try. I've also been thinking we all just used wood to keep the fire away from our hands. But why not find a way to have light produced by some sort of kindling that eventually got the whole stick burning? I know at camp fires I've pulled out a stick and it has given decent light. The problem is you can't carry an entire bonfire with you.

What I liked about the quality of the light was that it dimly lit really far, so if you were a good 30 feet from the torches and let you eyes adjust, you could see decently far ahead.

Chris · Posted: Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:51 pm Post subject:

Ok, the process, as I understood it, and I have to see this for myself, is take and empty can, bury it , open side up. Put a metal sheet with a hole or two punched into it over the buried can. Fill another can with wood, put it open side down over the holes. Pack dirt around them to help stop runoff. Light a fire on top of the cans.

You should get charcoal in the top can, and pitch in the bottom. Birch was suggested as some of the lightest. It would be interesting to experiment with different woods if we go this way.

I'd also like to take some time and get ahead myself next time. I didn't have a lot of time to let my eyes adjust away from the torches.

tate · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:57 pm Post subject:

Whether you worship one god, lots of them or none at all, I think you have to admit that birch trees are miraculous! That sounds like a fun little project. Where did you come up with that? Boy Scouts?

So, I imagine it has to be some fresh birch. That shouldn't be hard to find. My renters have a fire pit in the back yard, so all we'll need is cans (I'm thinking coffee cans would work) and a bunch of wood to burn on top of it. Any idea how long and how hot it all needs to be?

Chris · Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject:

Actually, this one comes from Google.

But that said, I'm glad I was in the scouts.

Even if Brent did like to fart on me.