Grimm Studios Game Forums

tate · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 1:02 pm Post subject: Torches

In fantasy gaming the primary way we see in the dark is torches. Now most systems have a few rules that allow you to easily work torches into the game so that every adventure isn't just about lighting, but recently we've been discussing whether or not those rules are entirely accurate to what a real torch is like. Basically the DM makes sure someone has a torch, and we assume for the rest of the encounter that everyone can see. We never think about things like accidentally burning ourselves. Or maybe in all the action the torch gets put out. And in a darkened underground chamber, how far can you see with a torch?

So, we're going to do some tests. Step one is of course making some torches. Most of the online advice on this has you make something that looks like a torch, but runs off of something other than plain old fire. My first try at the torch was mediocre: I wrapped some t-shirt material around a stick and stapled it every few layers. It burned ok, but in my back yard didn't seem to give off much light. Try # 2 tonight will be the same design with just a bit of charcoal lighter fluid sprinkled on to help it ignite. Does anyone else have suggestions? Tuesday night we're going to go play in the sewers, and I'd like to have a fair amount of torches ready by then.

Once we've tried them out, we'll let y'all know how it worked! I might even chance bringing the digital camera down there so we can share the experience. Please, any suggestions on torch-making would be very helpful!

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

FYI I found a ginourmous jug of lamp oil... I have a feeling it might be perfect for soaking the t shirts... interested? or for that matter, anyone out there know the history of torches? what DID they use for accelerant?

keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

We made torches for a live action scenario. They burn pretty well and give off a surprisingly good light. Less harsh than a flashlight and more omnidirectional, but dimmer and a bit flickery. I'd prefer it for traipsing around in the dark. You need to hold a torch high, to protect your eyes from looking at it directly.

And we found a fantastic solution to hold the fuel (sorry, I don't remember what we used for the liquid.) Far better than T-shirt material, was... tampons. They are extremely absorbent (natch) and hold a lot of fuel. THey also won't fall to pieces and send off bits of burning cloth, like a T-shirt might.
_________________
Commissions | Empty Room Studios - Store | Savage Earth | Blog

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

I stopped a really bad bloody nose like that once... I had to get a bloody nose the day my friend finally decided to clean her car...no wonder blood is so irony.

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

I'll bet muslin would work really well for the cloth... come to think of it, any really tightly woven material probably... I'd think the looser it was weaved the easier air would penetrate it and let the fire breath...

tate · Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 10:01 pm Post subject:

Yeah, I might try to pick up some burlap (probably to porous) and I also cut the sleeves off of a holey old wool sweater. The tampon solution is intriguing, but I'm going to try shooting for as "authentic" a torch as possible.

The t-shirt with lighter fluid worked a bit better, but still isn't quite what I'm shooting for. I'm also wondering how straw and cloth intermingled might do. I guess this is making me appreciate old Edison a bit more Idea

.

Ders et al, how does showing up at my place around 6:30 on Tuesday sound? Ders, if you have lamp oil and cloth, you could whip a few up. To keep the oil from getting on stuff (aka, your car) just put the business end of the torch in a plastic bag and rubberband it on!

Once we're done with this experiment I'd like to address what I see as the overuse of the "Flask of Oil" as a convenient weapon in D and D. Of course, Molotov cocktails are probably a much worse and harder to tryout medium than torches. Confused

keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

Most of the how to make a torch sites I found suggest paraffin as the fuel.
Here's one.
_________________
Commissions | Empty Room Studios - Store | Savage Earth | Blog

Chris · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:29 am Post subject:

So, you're thinking 6:30 Tate?

Ders, want to ride over together? I'm going to pick up some new boots tonight. I'm also going to look for some flint and steel and see what the time is to actually get something going with that. Haven't done that since scouts, but will be fun to try.

I've got some torch ideas I'm going to have to try. I know my initial concept was just a rag wrapped around a stick, but a coffee can with some holes (or vegies, soda, etc) might be better for a fuel pack. It hadn't occured to me that one "Good" torch, with a reloadable fuel pack would be perferable to carrying around 6 big sticks.

I'm hoping to keep my fuels limited to what we'd have in our pack to scavange. Parchment, linen (bandages and bedrolls), etc.

It'll be interesting to see how long different fuels burn.

I wonder if we should pick up a piece of PVC to test 10' pole myths...

keithcurtis · Joined: 29 Jun 2007 Posts: 149

I'll dial 9-1- and stand by, just to cut down on time.
Smile

_________________
Commissions | Empty Room Studios - Store | Savage Earth | Blog

Chris · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:37 am Post subject:

I almost dread asking this, but do any of us have a video camera? I can post video to the podcast link as well.

If nothing else, a youtube link would be nice.

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

yeah let's ride over together,

With all the rain recently, how is the water level in some of the sewers? and do you have a specific spot in mind Tate? It's hard to get to, but there's a really cool one in Lief Erickson park that actually looks like the entrance to a dungeon, I'd probably only suggest it with a dry ground though, it's kind of a treacherous path...

I'm likely going to bring an "adventuring" pack with us, basically some extra clothes, first aid kit, flashlights, and hey, maybe a sleeping bag if I'm feeling adventurous.

Chris · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 9:32 am Post subject:

I'll bring some Frobozz Grue Repelent incase the torches don't work.

And ders, I work the next day, so I won't be 'camping' there. But the pack should be interesting.

Ders · Podcast Host Joined: 28 Sep 2006 Posts: 175

you don't want to sleep in a freezing cold and dark sewer pipe full of frosty water? geez, and I thought you were dedicated...

tate · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 10:27 am Post subject:

As for the locale, it is where Chester Creek flows under Superior St. So there will be water, but the tunnel where we go in could accomodate 2 SUVs side by side, so it won't be too deep. Think ankle height. First aid kit is a good idea, as are flashlights, since we'll want to get in a ways before testing the illumination of our faulty torches. I'll swing by there today to make sure nothing vital has washed out.

As for video I'll be bringing my digital camera, and will be able to do up to 30 minutes of film, should it be necassary.

Ders if we're thinking of the same one in Leif Erickson, it'd be a tight squeeze doing the army crawl, so with it half full of water I wouldn't suggest it. Down the Lake walk there is a bigger one, but this time lets just stick to trusty old Chester Creek tunnel.

Chris · Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:45 pm Post subject:

Related reading:

http://members.aye.net/~bspen/fire.html

My torch is done. 3$ of materials from Menards.

1 small rain cap for a stove pipe
1 thick 3' wooden dowel
1 screw

Directions:
Screw rain cap upside down to dowel.

The side vents allow air, and reflect light out and down. The middle pipe should let smoke rise out, and refill with fuel. It'll be interesting.

Oh, do we have a tape measure for distance?
I have some more advanced ideas sometime, but this should do for tomorrow.